103. Gillian Hadfield - How to create explainable AI regulations that actually make sense

It’s no secret that governments around the world are struggling to come up with effective policies to address the risks and opportunities that AI presents. And there are many reasons why that’s happening: many people — including technical people — think they understand what frontier AI looks like, but very few actually do, and even fewer are interested in applying their understanding in a government context, where salaries are low and stock compensation doesn’t even exist. So there’s a critical policy-technical gap that needs bridging, and failing to address that gap isn’t really an option: it would mean flying blind through the most important test of technological governance the world has ever faced. Unfortunately, policymakers have had to move ahead with regulating and legislating with that dangerous knowledge gap in place, and the result has been less-than-stellar: widely criticized definitions of privacy and explainability, and definitions of AI that create exploitable loopholes are among some of the more concerning results. Enter Gillian Hadfield, a Professor of Law and Professor of Strategic Management and Director of the Schwartz Reisman Institute for Technology and Society. Gillian’s background is in law and economics, which has led her to AI policy, and definitional problems with recent and emerging regulations on AI and privacy. But — as I discovered during the podcast — she also happens to be related to Dyllan Hadfield-Menell, an AI alignment researcher whom we’ve had on the show before. Partly through Dyllan, Gillian has also been exploring how principles of AI alignment research can be applied to AI policy, and to contract law. Gillian joined me to talk about all that and more on this episode of the podcast. --- Intro music: - Artist: Ron Gelinas - Track Title: Daybreak Chill Blend (original mix) - Link to Track: https://youtu.be/d8Y2sKIgFWc  --- Chapters: 1:35 Gillian’s background 8:44 Layers and governments’ legislation 13:45 Explanations and justifications 17:30 Explainable humans 24:40 Goodhart’s Law 29:10 Bringing in AI alignment 38:00 GDPR 42:00 Involving technical folks 49:20 Wrap-up